In February, I posted some thoughts from an anonymous Netflix executive, who discussed mini-rooms and other issues that were likely to part of the upcoming negotiations with the WGA.
Earlier this month, I spoke with an executive at Apple TV+, who also agreed to talk as long as their anonymity was preserved (for obvious reasons).
It was a wide-ranging conversation and while it took a few days for the interview to hit people's radar in Hollywood, it sparked a lot of conversations about overseas production and the overall cost-cutting trends in the industry.
That overseas production discussion sparked this piece about the hidden costs of non-union global productions, which I posted earlier this week.
And today it's round two with our Apple TV+ executive, who I have been trading messages and emails with regularly since the first piece was posted. The quotes included here have only been slightly edited for clarity and to protect the identity of the executive.
Congratulations on not getting fired. Although having just watched some of the clips from the WGA rally, you seem to be an infamous person now.
Just one of the reasons why I didn't want to be identified. Plus, I'm talking because I think some important issues aren't being discussed. And if I do it on the record, it inevitably becomes all about me.
And then there's also that high probability you'd be fired
(laughing) Yes, there's is that, too. Look, I love working for the company and I think we're doing some stuff we should be proud of. But Apple is not known as a press-friendly company and I think they might have tried to figure out who was talking to you this week.
You mentioned that there were things you wanted to follow up on or flesh out more after you've seen the reaction to the original interview. What do you make of the writers' reaction to your interview? Or have you paid attention?
Oh, I've noticed it. I understand their anger and I agree with a lot of their points. It's not that I don't value their work. But I don't enough people are out there telling WGA members, "Look, it doesn't matter about history or offering the opportunity for gaining experience on the set. That stuff only matters on the margins, if at all. All of this - the size of the writers rooms, residuals, the growth of non-union productions...even AI. It's all about the money.
I'm not part of the negotiations, but I can tell you that everyone is obsessed with costs right now. It's easy to look at Apple and say "They have ten of billions in the bank, the costs of settling this means nothing to them." But that isn't true. Scrooge McDuck didn't give his employees extra money because he had a vault full of gold. You can't think that way.
I think what writers have to get a handle on is their best financial counterargument. "Yes, this will cost you slightly more money. But you'll save money this way because of it or this will make X more efficient."
I want to get this settled. I genuinely like the people I work alongside and want to get back to making stuff. But I am like a lot of people in the industry who just want to shake the negotiators on both sides and scream "This isn't 2008. The industry is different, the issues are different, and we're an entirely new business. I'm sorry, we're not going back to 22 episode seasons. Move on." I just.....(sighs)
The WGA is making a point of reminding people that the studios haven't returned to the bargaining table with the writers. Do you have any thoughts on why things have played out this way?
I know that most people I talk to mention that this has happened before. 2008 gets brought up a lot and the expectation is that once things with the other unions are settled, the WGA will reluctantly settle as well. I have no idea if that is what the studios are thinking. But if they are, I think they misunderstand where we are right now. There are so many issues and we barely know the framework of the problems, much less have a solution.
AI is looming out there and the problem is that no one can predict what may or may not happen in the next 3-5 years. Both sides are trying to predict the future and protect themselves against some unknowable future. And when you do that, you're as likely as not to get it wrong. Do I think that Apple is going to start utilizing AI in the writing process anytime soon? No. But I wouldn't want to bet my career on. AI is going to be like the cellphone. It's going to go from clunky and marginally useful to being everywhere. Imagine trying to negotiate a contract at the turn of the last century that tried to anticipate how people would use their phones five or ten years later. No matter what you predicted, you'd probably be wrong. And that's my fear about AI. No matter what either side gambles on during the negotiations, we're going to look back in a few years and think we were fucking morons.
One last thing. The comments you made about foreign productions really got a strong response from readers and I wonder if you have anything else about that subject that you think is important.
It's less of a factor here (at Apple TV+) than it is with some of the other big global streamers. But people in Hollywood have absolutely no clue how different the production process is in Eastern Europe or South Africa or in parts of Asia. It's not just that it's cheaper, but we are so used to having a predictable framework that everyone works off of during the production. That's not the case in some of those places. That being said, the gap in talent and expertise is closing rapidly. And you're seeing studios make the calculation that while shooting in Poland might be 20% less efficient, it's 40% less expensive. And studios are willing to make that tradeoff.
No one on either side is going to ask my advice...which honestly might be the reason I'm talking to you. But if anyone did ask, I'd say that you should only believe what you see spelled out clearly in the contract. Don't assume they'll do the right thing or do it the way they have for the past 20 years. If it's not written in stone, you're going to get screwed.
