On Sunday, most PBS stations will be premiering Patience, which stars Ella Maisy Purvis as a brilliant records clerk in York whose extraordinary attention to detail draws her into complex investigations. One interesting twist about the casting is that both Purvis and the character she plays are neurodiverse and that might be one of the reasons why the show does such a great job of providing an accurate representation of neurodiversity.
I had the opportunity to speak with Purvis earlier this week and the interview was a delight. She was charming, funny and very open about the challenges of tackling an acting career while being neurodiverse. Our conversation has been very lightly edited for clarity - mostly mine:
One of the reasons I wanted to talk to you was that I have a 19-year-old son who's neurodivergent, has ADHD and anxiety issues, and it is a rare show that really grasps any of the nuances that he goes through. And I think Patience did a really nice job with that.
Oh, thank you. That's really kind.
I've read in other interviews that you had spent time talking with lead writer Matt Baker sometimes when there were things you thought needed to be tweaked just a little bit. What are the type of things that you find people don't quite grasp who aren't neurodivergent that is something that you would say, "Okay, this is something maybe we need to rethink?"
It was just the idea that autistic people can't love and can't express their love. And it's not that it wasn't there, but there were just little things on set where I thought we were missing some little moments of connection.
The thing that I find people misunderstand is they think that autistic people don't want to connect. It's not that autistic people don't want to communicate and seek connection, it's just sometimes there's a barrier. I try to communicate with people in a certain way and they don't really understand. And so part of what we worked on was having that willingness to actually express and try and connect with people rather than just always being closed off.
It's interesting that you mentioned the trying to connect, because one of the things that comes across is while she can seem sort of off-putting sometimes to people, she has a lot of empathy. And that's one of the things I found with my son. People will tell my wife and I "Oh, he doesn't seem like he's autistic, he's so empathetic." Well, it's because every autistic person is different.
Yeah, and that whole thing that autistic people can't be empathetic - I would argue that autistic people are hyper-empathetic. Towards animals, towards people. I get upset about the just silliest things, because everything's heightened. Whether it be noise, sound....there's also emotions.
I was reading about this Orca called Hugo, and he was in SeaWorld, and it's a really horrific story, and he was just so unhappy. And I was reading about it and I was just sitting in my hotel room just crying. I was thinking, "What am I doing?"
How does that play out as an actress? Because you're in a profession where things are very unpredictable. There's a lot of stuff coming at you, sounds and emotions, and things get changed at the last minute. How do you deal with that chaos?
We're on season two right now, and one of the things that's fantastic is that I'm on set, or just in the little green room. And if I'm not up to scratch, or I've had a bad night's sleep, I'll think I need to go for a minute. It's those little things we can work out as we're going. But I think probably the ADHD part of me loves the kind of "Oh, ooh, this, ooh, let's do it, no, let's do it, let's go, let's go, let's go."
And then when I get home, I'll realize, "Oh, I've actually spoken to people all day today and it suddenly just hit me that I can't really do that without needing 12 hours of sleep."
That was one of the things I was curious about. I'd seen a different interviewer talking with you about ADHD, and I know, at least from my experience with people that have it, they have to figure out some structures to make that a little easier. So that you don't get distracted by whatever shiny object that you just looked at last. Is that something that comes into play in acting, or is it something that's not a problem?
When I'm on set, I get a call sheet, so I'm supposed to be here at this time, here at that time, and someone will tell me, "You need to be here, you need to go there, this is what we're doing, this is how much time we have." And it's perfect, you know?
Because we've got a certain amount of hours in the day that we need to get this done, and so there's always someone saying "Hurry up, or you need to go here." And so I don't really have to think that much about little everyday things. "You know, darling, things just get bought to me." (laughs)
I have a life, it's so hard, honestly, sometimes. It is. The nature of a set is very chaotic. But it's also structured chaos.
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I wanted to make sure we actually talked about the show itself. I really enjoyed her relationship with Bea (DI Bea Metcalf, played by Laura Fraser). It's two people who are very different, sort of figuring out what their relationship is, how they're supposed to act together, what the best way for them to interact. It's really fascinating to watch.
And it's funny, because I'm more like Bea, and Laura's more like Patience. So it was really weird flipping that on screen, because Laura always carries two of everything. If you need anything, she will have it in the tiniest little rucksack, and you'll think. "How does she have that?
But it's gorgeous, and I think it's because of the dynamic between the two. It's sort of maternal, and there's this care that comes from Laura, or from Bea. It surpasses all of the the people around her saying "she's not this, and she's not that, and she needs to do this." And Bea's pushing back, saying "Whoa, whoa, whoa, okay? We have something here."
And it's not very often that we disabled people - deaf, disabled, neurodivergent people - have that kind of a mentor. Or someone that says "What you've got, you're doing really well, you are really clever.” It's not often that your talents are recognised, especially in a workforce, and in the police. So I think it's extraordinary, this sort of time, and grace, and fascination Bea has with her. And the respect.
And it's a good relationship to model for real life, because it's rare to find someone who's willing to do those extra steps to help somebody.
Yeah, and I think when we start to unpack it, it's just asking, "Is it that hard, though?"
The answer is no, okay? The answer is no, it's not that hard, it's just about just being a person.
I find people nowadays aren't aware of anyone else. You know, everyone is so closed off? And I find that hard just generally. Because I'm like, "I want to know everything about you, and I want to get in there."
And in the workforce, everyone's focused about themselves, and that's fine. But what's gorgeous is if you see this different brain, and how it can help, and how - if you nurture it - your jobs are gonna get done very quickly.
So what you need to do is an interview show. Where you could just talk to people and find out about them.
Oh, I'd love to do that, I'd love to do that, like Graham Norton, but just with random people.
Before I let you go, I wanted to talk a little bit about the relationship with Billy, which is an interesting one. It sort of plays out across the season, and that's another one where again, you're never quite sure where it's going to head from episode to episode.
What I love about their relationship is most of is unspoken. Most of it's just like, "Oh yeah, she does that, and I do that, done." And it's one of those friendships where you can just sit in silence and just read a book, go on your phone. And I know that you're okay, and you know that I'm okay, or I know that you're not okay, and you know that I'm not doing well - do you know what I mean? They have one of those friendships, and Billy's a great pillar of support for her, I think.
You talked about the fact you're shooting season two right now. Did they have discussions with you about, "Hey, this is what's going to happen, or do you know what's going on?"
I think so, I hope so. I mean, I've got the scripts.
So you know that they're not going to secretly kill you off at the end of season two to wrap it all up.
I mean, with the way that I'm carrying on, probably.
Do you like getting all the scripts ahead of time, or do you like to be a little surprised? I've found that every actor has their own preference on this question.
I need everything. So early in advance, it's really annoying.
Patience premieres Sunday, June 15th on most PBS stations.